Kesha, Mark Ronson & More Join THR Oscars Songwriter Roundtable: 'Our Main Job Is to Make You Boogie'


Jack Antonoff, Diane Warren, David Crosby, Tim McGraw, Boots Riley, Kesha & Ronson discover the aesthetic rebel of their artwork, the politics of sound and the way music has saved them.

The seven recording artists who gathered Nov. 11 for THR's Songwriter Roundtable — Jack Antonoff, 34 (“Alfie’s Song (Not So Typical Love Song)” from Love, Simon); David Crosby, 77 (“Home Free” from Little Pink House); Kesha, 31 (“Here Comes the Change” from On the Basis of Sex); Tim McGraw, 51 (“Gravity” from Free Solo); Boots Riley, 47 (the soundtrack for Sorry to Bother You, which he additionally wrote and directed); Mark Ronson, 43 (“The Shallow” from A Star Is Born) and Diane Warren, 62 (“I’ll Fight” from the doc RBG) — span genres and generations, however these musicians, who penned a few of awards season's strongest music contenders, have a lot in widespread. In their energetic dialogue (condensed and edited right here), they explored why songwriting is so scary and find out how to deal with politics with their artwork. Says Crosby, "I don't suppose we should always lose observe of the truth that we need to make individuals really feel good."

What's the primary music you wrote?

TIM MCGRAW I grew up in just a little city — Start, Louisiana — simply cotton farming and bean farming, been driving a tractor my complete life. I don't bear in mind precisely how previous I used to be, nevertheless it was when Princess Diana and Charles acquired married. I simply fell in love along with her like all people else did. So I sat down and wrote a music about their wedding ceremony and the way lovely she was. I don't bear in mind the way it goes, I simply bear in mind one thing about "You look a lot like a queen" or one thing like that. It was horrible.

KESHA That's neat. I used to be 12, and it was about champagne. (Laughter.) I had no thought what champagne tasted like, however I used to be singing about that.

BOOTS RILEY I used to be writing the college play and I didn't rap or something, nevertheless it was requested that we do an East Oakland model of West Side Story with raps in it as a substitute of songs. What's the music they sing, "To be in America" or one thing?

MARK RONSON (Singing) "I wish to be in America …"

RILEY Yeah, so I wrote a rap model of that, pondering that is going to be horrible. And it was horrible. But no person booed, so I used to be like, "Maybe I might rap!"

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MCGRAW Are you — I do know I'm this fashion — actually exhausting on your self and exhausting in your songs, like tougher than you’d be on different individuals's?

DAVID CROSBY Yeah, effectively, when your ego's concerned you need to be good. And within the bands that I used to be in — not now, I'm in a cooperative band now — however I used to be in a really aggressive band, so we have been at all times making an attempt to high one another. Frantically making an attempt to make the songs be pretty much as good as we presumably might

RILEY Did that make the songs higher than in your cooperative scenario?

CROSBY Competitive winds up at struggle, collaborative winds up in a symphony orchestra. When I used to be just a little child, I noticed a symphony orchestra and it caught in me, the ability of the entire thing — all these elbows transferring on the similar time, cooperating to make one factor.

DIANE WARREN Kind of like the federal government. (Laughter.)

CROSBY No! Kind of like what the federal government is meant to be.

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Let's discuss concerning the writing course of. Do you get author's block? What do you do if a music simply isn't working?

WARREN I don't get author's block so much. I write on my own more often than not, mainly on a regular basis, and every part will probably be very easy after which one little piece will probably be so exhausting. I'll spend two days on two strains. But if I consider in a music, I simply must stroll away for a minute.

RILEY I’ve to stroll away to one thing else inventive. If I stroll away and simply, like, take a break, I at all times must relearn find out how to write songs each time I begin again up. Somewhere midway by writing the music, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that is what I do."

RONSON Going into a primary day of a brand new challenge for me is sort of a horrible first day of college — you simply really feel like, "Oh, that is going to be the one everybody remembers and finds out I'm a fraud." Then you sit down and over a day or two days you're like, "OK, one thing's coming again."

JACK ANTONOFF But I feel you don't get good at it. People suppose that songwriters get good at songwriting; I feel you simply type of do it.

WARREN You do get higher.

MCGRAW But it's not linear.

ANTONOFF One factor I've been obsessive about currently is it does go away. It's not an limitless effectively. I feel all writers know that.

RILEY But life is infinite so there's at all times one thing to write down about that you just didn't take into consideration.

MCGRAW It may very well be like luck — you will have luck after which in the future you get up and also you simply don't have luck anymore. It simply goes away.

ANTONOFF Songwriters do that fascinating factor the place they’ve one foot in and one foot out, which is why I feel a whole lot of songwriters have powerful private lives. Having half of your thoughts or physique not in actuality since you're placing it on this file cupboard, it's fuckin' nice for songwriting however …

RILEY Bad for all times expertise.

CROSBY I began out writing on my own. And not too long ago, within the final 4 years, I've been writing virtually continually with different individuals as a result of the opposite man at all times thinks of one thing I didn't. It's as for those who had two painters they usually every had a palette. And this man has seven colours and [the other] man has seven colours. Put them collectively, you've acquired 14 colours and this higher portray.

RONSON My factor is mainly purely collaborative as a result of I not often sit down and write on my own on the piano. Usually I'm producing an artist and typically you're there to offer a whole lot of the music, typically you're there simply to assist with a number of lyrics, be a bouncing board, give a number of chords, assist end the following line. Luckily, for higher or for worse, one of the best songs come whenever you're going by a making an attempt time. That's what I discover. And in that place, whether or not it's like an Amy Winehouse or whoever it’s, I get to type of faucet into their effectively of large emotion for a short while. And typically it's not even truthful as a result of I'm going alongside for the trip on their horrible, tragic life.

Boots Riley Made Two Full Soundtracks for 'Sorry to Bother You' | Songwriter Roundtable

In the film trade, films undergo check screenings to get suggestions on what works and what doesn't. Who do you first present a music to? Who do you want that suggestions from?

CROSBY My spouse, Jan. I've been married to her for 41 years and a part of my writing course of is: We eat dinner collectively as a household, after which I’m going within the bed room and make a fireplace after which I smoke a joint after which I take a guitar off the wall after which I play. And that's one of many solely issues pot's any good for is you get hung up taking part in. She's there and in order I'm playing around and discovering melodies and units of modifications and stuff, she's sitting proper there and she is going to take her telephone if it will get good — that's how I do know I'm pleasing her and I'm developing with one thing good — the telephone will slide out from beneath the pillow. She'll simply type of tuck it in, get it over subsequent to me.

Will she inform you if one thing's not working or is not any good?


MCGRAW Mine will.

WARREN It's at all times good to have somebody to inform you one thing sucks. There's any person that I work with, Julie, that I've labored with for a very long time that I'll play one thing, she's like "Nope." It's good to have these individuals.

MCGRAW Most of the group of individuals I’m going to aren’t within the music trade in any respect.

ANTONOFF Yeah, as a result of different songwriters have an excessive amount of baggage.

CROSBY I feel it's completely essential that you’ve got folks that you’ll sing stuff to that aren’t afraid of you and will probably be important to you and you may belief that. Because I do know, I can consider not less than one actually good instance of any person who doesn't have anyone close to them that doesn't work for them.

KESHA My mother tells me every part. I ship all of it to her and he or she'll simply be like …

WARREN Is she brutal?

KESHA Oh she's so brutal. She'll be like, "This is horrible, this sucks, you're making an attempt method too exhausting." I'll be like, "Oh fuck, she's proper." She's at all times proper.

RILEY I additionally take my stuff to Best Buy and Target and simply play it and stroll into the opposite aisle and the see if anyone's bobbin' their head.

KESHA That is such a good suggestion. I'm gonna borrow that.

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Mark, you labored on Lady Gaga's album Joanne — how did you and Gaga provide you with this stripped-down model of her for A Star Is Born?

RONSON We have been in all probability fortunate that we had labored on Joanne and damaged some floor the place she was able to go someplace very private once we wrote "The Shallow." If it was a daily songwriting session, we had simply met the day earlier than, I don't know if we’d've tapped into that. She was clearly writing as [her character] Ally, however you may't assist however faucet into your individual emotion. Everybody's shit and life expertise and trials and tribulations is form of being channeled in that music, however for this one particular person to sing within the movie. We imagined it was the top credit music. We had no thought it was going to grow to be a part of the narrative.

Jack, coming-of-age romance films typically are recognized for these iconic soundtrack moments. Did you take into account that when writing for Love, Simon?

ANTONOFF I had by no means executed a soundtrack earlier than, I had solely executed songs — and I consider a lot in soundtracks. In my era Reality Bites was actually large, and after I hear any of these songs I nonetheless go proper to the movie. I like John Hughes. He was an enormous a part of my life rising up. I grew up in an actual suburban atmosphere and form of needed to dream about a whole lot of issues and not likely expertise, like there wasn't a whole lot of medicine or intercourse or something. And I at all times felt that John Hughes and people songs spoke to that, and spoke to me. So after I began speaking concerning the soundtrack, you spend a whole lot of years of your life not being invited, proper? And then when you’ve got any success you begin getting invited [to do soundtracks] and it’s important to begin asking your self, "Can I truly assist right here or do I simply wanna do that?"

MCGRAW "Has my ambition outstretched my expertise?"

ANTONOFF Yeah, completely. Because even the movie is dicey — this concept of an LGBT love story rocketed into the mainstream. It might go so flawed or so proper. It might actually be this gross company spin, or it may very well be lovely. And I discovered it to be completely lovely, and it felt like a contemporary John Hughes film. I simply needed to write down songs from the attitude of me rising up and being in highschool, pondering that my life was going to proceed to be extraordinarily unimportant by my requirements, which I feel is how most individuals really feel. And though I didn't have the expertise of the principle character, I needed to write down the soundtrack as a result of I did have the expertise of simply feeling like shit at that time in my life. And that's actually what the movie is about. And I feel that's why it's progressive is as a result of it's the homosexual story that has nothing to do with gayness; it has to do with …

CROSBY People.


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Kesha and Diane, you each wrote songs for movies about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. How did you strategy writing for such an icon?

WARREN I needed to write down a music that may very well be her theme as a result of she is a fighter. She speaks so softly however she is louder than anyone, what she has to say and what she stands for, which is us. But after I write a music for this or after I write a music for any film, I need it to reside out. Obviously at the start it has to reside for the film and be Ruth Bader Ginsburg's theme music, however I need it to be additionally outdoors the film, the place you can be saying that to your pals, you can be saying it to your youngsters.

KESHA I've by no means written a music for a film earlier than, so I went and noticed the film, and it was form of daunting as a result of it was presupposed to be the top credit score music. After you watch what she's executed for ladies, I felt much more overwhelmed and I used to be like, "Oh, shit, this can be a large process." I had three hours within the studio and I left for a tour the following day. So we went in, and we simply fucked about for like 20 minutes. Because it's a interval film, we needed the music to really feel that it might've been from the '50s, it might've been from the '70s or it may very well be present. It was very a lot impressed by Bob Dylan, which I feel for those who take heed to it, it's apparent.

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Artists are sometimes influenced by the present political local weather. How is that inspiring your work?

CROSBY Here's how I really feel about it: I feel that’s a part of our job. It comes from the troubadours in Middle Ages Europe, the individuals who carried information from city to city, they have been the media. That has descended to us, to the singer-songwriters, as a part of our job. This is a vital level: It's solely half. Our essential job is to make you boogie, our essential job is to take you on just a little emotional voyage.

MCGRAW Make you are feeling good.

CROSBY Tell you tales.

KESHA And entertain.

CROSBY Music is a lifting pressure. It makes issues higher.

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ANTONOFF Everything is inherently political, so typically being much less on the nostril — like, for those who put out a music that, as you’d say, makes you boogie, that's political proper now as a result of that's within the face of what's occurring.

CROSBY Being instantly political is acceptable typically. If they begin capturing youngsters at Kent State, you need to write about it.

RILEY Every piece of artwork and every part we are saying is political as a result of, to make use of a well-worn analogy, for those who have been a singer in Nazi Germany and your factor was "Let's all get together," that may be a political assertion since you are ignoring every part. But what music does, what artwork does, is it's like individuals yelling on the stars and saying, "We are right here, this second is occurring!" It's a method for the listener and the artist to be engaged with the world, engaged with the universe, and really feel this second extra.

RONSON You can solely write what genuinely comes out of you. I’m in all probability the one particular person right here who shouldn’t be actually a lyricist. I write music, so I try to let my politics [speak in other ways], whether or not it's supporting Swing Left or no matter it’s — that's what I can do. I'm type of envious of what you guys have been in a position to do. I simply try to discover my method in.

KESHA Sounds will be actually punk rock and political additionally, simply sonically. It's not as apparent as phrases, however whenever you hear an insane bass sound, as an illustration, that may be actually transferring, not less than to me.

RILEY The Dead Kennedys broke up as a result of they have been making an attempt to make use of "Holiday in Cambodia" for a Volkswagen industrial and [Jello Biafra] didn't need all of the which means taken out of that. Now no matter your stance is on that, the purpose is that if rebel is barely aesthetic, then that aesthetic gained't be rebellious for lengthy as a result of that aesthetic will get consumed and used.

ANTONOFF That's what we're in now. You activate the TV and each industrial is so absurdly woke. And on the one hand it's unimaginable, however then again there's part of you that's nonetheless like, "You guys didn't give a shit till it turned a part of a moneymaking machine."

How has music saved every of you?

KESHA Music is one thing that just about will get channeled by me. I’ll simply be asleep or within the bathe and have an thought. And abruptly I’m going right into a panic and I begin yelling, "It's an emergency scenario," and all people in my home simply is aware of to offer me a tape recorder or a bit of paper. And after I write, it feels so cathartic. And I like figuring out that as a lady I will be self-sufficient. Something no person can ever take away from me is my means to write down. That makes me really feel secure.

MCGRAW In a literal sense, it saved me as a result of I used to be getting an eviction discover from my residence and I acquired my first royalty test just about throughout the similar week. But in a broader sense, every part good that has occurred to me in my life has come from music. I met my spouse [Faith Hill] by it, which was the primary turning level in my life into an actual understanding of what love is and discovering out who you might be in a whole lot of methods and discovering the dangerous sides of your self and the nice sides of your self. And music is such remedy. Especially for those who grew up in a dysfunctional atmosphere, to have that as a software that you may go to is one thing that I'm at all times grateful for. Or I attempt to be grateful, I'm not at all times — as a result of it will probably go away. You can get up one morning and, such as you stated, your magic is gone.

CROSBY I'm not gonna fear about it. It might occur, however I can't give it some thought. But cathartic. Exactly the phrase. You get to take a look at elements of your life and issues that you just're going by in a method that we couldn't in any other case. I like that about it.

WARREN Music saves you, nevertheless it's saving different individuals too. I get notes from individuals — like, actually songs can save your life. People needed to kill themselves they usually … someway a music you wrote in your little room simply saved somebody's life. So what we do is basically necessary.

RONSON I actually don't go to completely happy music. If I'm in a depressed state, I need to take heed to unhappy songs. I need to really feel like somebody understands me.

CROSBY Listen to the blues, it's good for ya.

This article initially appeared on The Hollywood Reporter.